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Diensten Mobiel Internet - type FTMSC

  • 24 augustus 2017
  • 11 reacties
  • 309 Bekeken

Can somebody explain me how the activation of these services work? I found today extra charges in by phone bill under the section "Overige kosten" and it seems that they are from some kind of internet service I have subscribed. I don't think that I or somebody from my family have activated these services. In T-Mobile shop I received the usual explanation that I have clicked some obscure link or pop-up on my phone or computer or replied to a SMS, which has activated the service. I'm quite sure that this is not the case, but let's assume that it was. Even if I'm activating inadvertently a payment service which is charged on my phone bill, I should receive some kind of confirmation request on my phone (SMS) to which I have to reply from my phone, confirming that I really want to pay for these services. I never received anything like that. If there is no such a confirmation, then anybody could have used my number without that I know anything about it. Is this really so?
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Beste antwoord door Kaassausje 24 augustus 2017, 20:10

Hi daddyR, welcome to the T-Mobile community.

It is as already described to you. Sometimes it's caused by clicking on a link, sometimes it's in an app you've downloaded, sometimes it's from filling in a webform to win something, the list of possible causes is long.

Sometimes there's just the payinfo message and the costs on the invoice. I'm not sure if you've already stopped this service, but if you haven't, you can do so on the payinfo website.

You can also put up a barring in your My T-Mobile. The barring is called 'aankopen bij derde partijen'.

Did the T-Shop give you a form to fill in? If not, you can find the online form on this page. If you'd rather like to fill in the paper version, you can find it here.

There's more information and a FAQ in the general FTMSC topic, but it's all in Dutch.

If you have any questions about this, feel free to ask them. 🙂
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Hi daddyR, welcome to the T-Mobile community.

It is as already described to you. Sometimes it's caused by clicking on a link, sometimes it's in an app you've downloaded, sometimes it's from filling in a webform to win something, the list of possible causes is long.

Sometimes there's just the payinfo message and the costs on the invoice. I'm not sure if you've already stopped this service, but if you haven't, you can do so on the payinfo website.

You can also put up a barring in your My T-Mobile. The barring is called 'aankopen bij derde partijen'.

Did the T-Shop give you a form to fill in? If not, you can find the online form on this page. If you'd rather like to fill in the paper version, you can find it here.

There's more information and a FAQ in the general FTMSC topic, but it's all in Dutch.

If you have any questions about this, feel free to ask them. 🙂
Thanks for your quick answer Kaassausje. So if the activation of a payment service works as you described, then it must be an open mandate for cyber criminals to make money. Let's assume that I want to commit a fraud (which is just a hypothesis, I'm not a criminal). I open an online service, which uses this kind of payment method (charge via phone bill). Then I activate the service to 2000 random T-Mobile cell phone numbers and with the activation I charge the first 5 euros for example, if that is the cost of my service. Now I have charged 10 000 euros from T-Mobile cell phone users without that they have any clue what's going on. I don't think this can be so simple. If T-Mobile is charging me some services directly in my phone bill, there must be some kind of proof somewhere, that I have authorized T-Mobile to do so. If not, I don't understand on what basis T-Mobile can issue such an invoice.
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Hi DaddyR,

I'm glad you ask these questions, it's always good to clear things up!

Kaassausje's answer is very complete and I recommend you to follow her tips and tricks. I highly suggest to take a look at the website of Payinfo to learn more about where these costs are coming from. This way you can be more aware of it in the future. As said before, it's also an option to put up a barring in My T-Mobile. This way you can be completely sure it will not happen again.

As for the cyber criminals: of course fraud is illegal. If this happens we will contact the company that's participating in this matter. However, a lot of companies are legal and the costs they charge are justified. For example there are many games with in-app purchases and many people use this service for it.

Hopefully this gives you all the info you need, but if you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask!
Thanks Jaimy. I'm well aware about the barring options and the Payinfo website, but that's not actually my point here. I just want to understand how T-Mobile assure that it was me who subscribed those services, but it was not somebody else who just used my number? If T-Mobile offers a payment platform to the service providers (charge via phone bill), it should have adequate security mechanisms in place to make sure that there services are not used improperly. From what you are telling me, it really looks that it is not the case.

Anyhow, could you please inform me how can I open an official claim about my next bill. Since there will be charges which I think are wrong, I just want be sure that T-Mobile knows that I'm not accepting them even if I'll probably pay the bill. It goes with a direct debit from my bank account, so it would be too much hassle to cancel it. Thanks.
Hi daddyR.

I already mentioned the webform and the paper version in my other reply. You'll need to wait for the invoice, after that, you can fill in the form and T-Mobile will start 'an investigation'. If there's no real proof that you willingly activated the service, you'll get your money back. 🙂
Okay. Just an update about this. I got the confirmation from the customer service, that they will give me my money back. But that does not solve the issue T-Mobile has. The e-mail I received was quite arrogant, because T-Mobile still put all the responsibility and blame to me, saying that I have received and confirmed the services via SMS, which was sent to my cell phone, but despite of that T-Mobile is so kind and reimburses me the money. That is not the case. I have never received or confirmed anything and T-Mobile knows that very well. I strongly doubt that they are able to prove in contrary. So this probably means that T-Mobile has a severe security flaw in their systems, which allows activation of a payment services for a number, without that the owner of the number is aware of that. In addition, T-Mobile claims that as an "extra service", they have disabled the payment services from my number in order to prevent this happening again. That is a lie, because I had disabled them already by myself when I realized that there were unjustified charges in my phone bill around a month ago. I'd be happy to discuss about this issue with somebody, but getting in contact with a person in T-Mobile is extremely difficult. My Dutch is still quite limited, so I'm not able to navigate through the long voice menus if I phone the call center. There is no email address I could use. I even tried to send a mail to Mr. Van der Plas, who sent the response to my claim, but looks that my mail was rejected by T-Mobile's spam filters (access denied error was displayed)
Hello DaddyR,

It's interesting you find T-Mobile arrogant as your way of responding here has an identical response on me. Even though I never speak for others (unless explicitly approved), I've been pointed at this thread because of how you're responding. Draw a conclusion out of it.

Now;
if T-Mobile can find in their own logs that a confirmation SMS has been send to you, then whether you noticed it, or not, is irrelevant. This is the check they do, request the date of the SMS and see if they can match that claim in their own logs. If that SMS is in their logs, whatever happened on your phone with that SMS is your responsibility, you got the subscription technically legal. The only possible reason I can imagine why you got the current reimbursement is that the company has too many negative claims already...

The fact you also seem annoyed by a routine response in which they disable further possible cost, is ridiculous at the least. You're mad they checked this and say that they did this as an extra service, because you already did this? Ever considered it's just phrasing and you're now overreacting on a 'routine process that includes a disabling of said options'? You place emphasis on that you're not fluent, might not even be proficient, in Dutch, but this you understood as an absolute and deliberate lie...

So for your intent to discuss, please don't... If a confirmation SMS shows up in the logs, you signed up (unwillingly or not) by some action. Debating unjustified cost on a bill you're having reimbursed is pointless. That's just wasting time for the sake of arguing.

Be more careful, don't lend your phone to people and be grateful T-Mobile reimburses cost already on the fact people tend to get misled by some of these services. Technically you provided information that say you're getting lucky and you shouldn't get any reimbursement.
You say "if T-Mobile can find in their own logs that a confirmation SMS has been send to you". That is exactly my point here. I'd assume that 4 weeks was enough to find that entry from the log file and show it to me. In that case, my bad, I pay the bill and apologize the hassle. But instead they send me a very generic response explaining me what could have happened and how I could have inadvertently subscribed the service. Show me the log or other proof and that's the end of the story.
Why? Your bill is reimbursed, there is no reason whatsoever to show you anything. The only moment T-Mobile would ever need to show any kind of proof is if you disagree with a negative investigation result and go to court. That's when they will show you which sms was the confirmation sms, otherwise it's simple... Reimbursement means end of story.

If you're paranoid and need proof (of everything), good luck in life. Don't think you have rights as there is no remaining issue, you don't have any substantial interest in the matter to know what got send or why the subscription got rejected that would weigh as a reason to provide you anything, don't act like the current 'entitled generation'.

You got your money back, for whatever reason, be happy, move on.
Why not? I opened the claim to better understand what had happened, not so much for the money. They investigated the case for 4 weeks and only thing they could send me, was an assumption what has happened. I was expecting something more than that. Why they did not give me the exact information, so I could understand in which circumstances I have made the mistake and subscribed the services.

In case they don't have that information... well I'm sure that you can understand well what that could mean.

By default in these cases it's always the "dummy" user who doesn't know what he is doing. That has been the message from T-Mobile right from the beginning when I opened the claim. We all do mistakes, that's human. But I don't think that T-Mobile is not immune to them either. Put blame on somebody without any evidences is just unfair in my opinion.

Anyhow, I'll leave it here. I hope that you can understand also at least a bit of my point here. If not, that's fine, we don't have to think in a same way about this.
Then you didn't understand/know what you were requesting with the investigation form.
You asked to determine if the cost were just, not to receive an inspection report with any kind of data you personally could inspect. Unless it's a valid subscription, don't expect any extensive report nor the ability to request it.

As for dummy examples, there is a thread on the forum about someone who put the sim in a router (not technically allowed with mobile subscriptions) and got signed up... So clearly, not by sending a text and obviously he never saw the confirmation SMS (regardless of being send). You can get signed up by websites and all, something to keep in mind when you open a hotspot.

In your case I would speculate you got signed up by an advertisement with some simple script for your 06 number... If the fraud person on the other end also deliberately messes up the SMS header, you'll not even see it. Though respect for the coding required.

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