Beantwoord

T-Mobile IND sticker

  • 20 januari 2016
  • 32 reacties
  • 2181 Bekeken

First I want to apologize for posting this in English, it also concerns problems for non-dutch persons.
I'm wondering why does T-Mobile Nl, been a part of a big international telecom brand, hates so much foreigners, that it goes to great lengths to prevent them from using it's services.
It seems T-Mobile requires an "IND sticker" from any EU citizen residing in NL in order to allow a contract to be made.
This is in conflict with the official IND position : https://ind.nl/organisatie/nieuws/Paginas/Afschaffing-meldplicht-EU-burgers.aspx

And is obviously a discriminatory measure that adds additional hoops and stops before a non-dutch citizens with no other reason but to inconvenience and discourage them. I find this kind of discrimination strange.
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Beste antwoord door Hajar 25 januari 2016, 09:02

Hi Pavlin,

Welcome to the T-Mobile Community!

Thank you for asking your question on our platform. I believe you are misinformed about our IND policy. The IND sticker (proof of registration), was used until a few years ago as a requirement for EU citizens to obtain a subscription with a device. However, since 2013 the IND has stopped the registration of EU citizens and thus also with providing this sticker / proof of registration. The policy is then changed for EU citizens. They can also get a T-Mobile subscription by presenting a passport or national ID card.

The IND sticker was used as a form of registration for five years and therefore it is still used in our system. It allows people who have this document to get a subscription with a device until January 1, 2018. However, the IND sticker is not required anymore, but serves as an additional service to the customer.

I hope I have provided you with a sufficient answer and that I have changed your perception of us as a company.

If you have any questions further, please let me know!
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32 reacties

First off... if you keep talking about discrimination, hate and other terms of that order... I can garantuee you your stay on this customer forum won't be pleasent nor remotely fruitful. Something any person should understand is this simple rule: You don't offend your host in their house.

If you feel that this risk preventive check is a discriminating action, then there isn't anything polite I can say in response. Although I completely agree that this outdated check that should no longer be applied based on the IND site, some sort of garantuee is required against risk. I can fully understand you won't get any contract outside a prepaid sim only based on not willing to provide anything else. Basically, T-Mobile is not obliged to provide you with a subscription if you can't provide enough garantuee on being able to pay for your contract. You could try in the MediaMarkt to get a sim only with only an ID / Passport as they really don't care as long as it's a sale.

However, again, this is a customer forum, which means such a question will take (a lot, considering legal dep. response time on previous matters) time before you will have a response. Mabe you'll hear something positive, maybe not.

In all situations, we're here to help each other and kindness goes much further than to start calling us part of an "hateful discriminating organisation that doesn't follow the law" (in obvious exagerated and paraphrasing sense, but then again... ). So, when a moderator comes across this post he/she will most likely pass it allong and then the waiting game starts.
I did not put any of the negativity you seem to have seen in my post in it. I apologize if I have worded it in a offensive way somehow!
Also, I posted this in this forum mostly hoping that some other buitenlander has an experience with this and can provide an advice.

About the word "discrimination". I'm not using it as an insult or as an emotional weapon, but as a simple fact within the description that I provided in the post.
Before the start of the last year the IND sticker was an understandable part of the requirements that I completely accepted the first time that I got asked about it 4 years ago.
When that happened I said "Fair enough, you are right to ask this of me" and then I simply went to the operator next door and got a contract with them. The fact is for the past 7 years I have been living in The Netherlands, T-Mobile is the only one to ever ask about this sticker. You get a BSN, open a company, open bank accounts, get credits, mortgages, gsm and cable contracts and so on without it, even the police doesn't ask for it. So I was a bit annoyed when T-Mobile asked for it back then but I completely accepted it as a valid requirement.

However since the start of the last year this is no longer the case. You say "some sort of guarantee is required against risk", that's probably what T-Mobile also says. On the other hand the issuer of the sticker itself states that it should not be used this way.
So the explanation that the sticker is used for security is invalid. And because the sticker is not required by low, the issuer doesn't want to issue it anymore and nobody else is asking for it, it is safe to assume that nobody will go to the trouble of getting it. At the moment this sticker is a glass wall put there to keep non-dutch out. I'm not saying this is good or bad, I'm just saying that this is the most logical conclusion.

I wouldn't care about all this if I was not tied up in a Catch-22 situation with their administration. From a technical point of view I think they are currently the best mobile provider in NL and I would love to stay with them, but if they don't want me, then I will go somewhere else. The problem is they don't even help me with this.
Long story short - I had a company (ZZP) that I recently closed. The company has a contract with them that expires this coming April. I had quite a lot of bad experience with the support and the contract management people that is not relevant here. Now the problem is that they will not transfer the contract from the company to me as a person because of the sticker thingy. But they will also not tell me what to do in order to cancel the contract. So I'm hanging here not knowing what to do.
And here comes another thing that made me put the subject of my post the way I did. For the past 7 years here I had only 2 cases of support people on the phone unable to speak English. Funny enough both those cases were the Corporate Support Of the International 21century Global Brand T-Mobile 🙂
If there is a problem with electricity, leaking pipes, central heating, cable tv, anything - everyone speaks English. Except the corporate support of a multinational telecom operator. I don't say they need to. I just find this quite ironic.
So the guy at the contract management told me in Dutch-English that a colleague who can speak English will call me later. I'm, still waiting.
I'm not saying they need to speak to me in English. If they asked to speak in Dutch I would have asked a friend to call them. But they are playing cat and mouse game with me and because I'm the mouse I find this somewhat offensive. Not least because I have been a well-behaved client for 2 years now (for some companies the good record of the client works in their favor, not here I guess).

However this is not relevant to my question here. And the question is if IND themselves say that the sticker shoud not be used and does not provide any security why is T-Mobile still requiring it?

P.S. Actually I do expect the corporate support of an international brand company to speak English regardless of the country it operates.
Ok, still agreeing, as I said before ;)

- T-Mobile NL is however a independant corporation... Something like all gas-stations part of a brand are still independant companies. So the "English" part is uhm, sadly known... I can however confirm that English companies (ea.com....) has people in service that don't fathom the principle of the language, regardless of working for a company that is supposed to be English ;)

- The issue with the 'written' language is the lack of expression and emphasis. So combining certain words tend to have result faster to understandings. Your response clarifies it for me, sorry for reading a different message.

- The thing about the 'sticker' is that it hasn't been revoked yet, eventhough I agree with you on the fact it's not a 'proper' garantuee. For this, I would recommend more to have some time and have this picked up by moderators here on the forum who can communicate through different routes.

For example.. I spend several hours (spread over multiple weeks) with EA to get an account restored (hacked then banned and nobody informs the original owner...). I get 1 guy in the end who reads, understands and responds "well if you do this and this, I can do that and that and we should have this sorted out in a couple of minutes".... It sometimes is more a situation of connecting the right persons.

As I understand why it is being asked, it doesn't mean it suddenly should stop all together, especially with a 7 year history on the contract. So, for that I suggest and ask to give it a couple days for a moderator (24 to 48 hours) to pick this up and see if we can solve this in the next weeks.
I actually do not expect a reaction from T-Mobile here. I hope someone with experience in this can give me some advice.
In the mean time I have sent the contract management people the document that IND says needs to be sent to those asking for the sticker and I hope I will get an adequate reaction.

IND says (on the page I linked earlier) : "Download hier een brief van de IND die u kunt tonen aan bedrijven en organisaties die u om een bewijs van rechtmatig verblijf vragen."
So I did.
IND says that this letter should be enough for everyone asking for the sticker as it explains what is valid and what not and gives the same guarantees as the sticker would.
Also as a fact, reading what IND says, if any institution keeps asking me for the sticker even after I have sent them this document from the IND I would blame them not only for discrimination but for things way worse :-)

Again to clarify - at the moment I'm not saying that T-Mobile is a nationalistic discriminating and close-minded company. Sorry again if this was somehow implied by my first post.
But if the sticker does not provide any value at all why would they keep asking for it if not using it as a glass wall to keep butenlanders out even if this means losing regularly paying customers.

P.S. Even if it is not multinational company, I still expect the corporate support to speak English.

P.P.S. I mean to say this in the most neutral way so no offence intended. EA is an american company, while T-Mobile NL is a dutch one. My experience shows that the difference between them and how they operate and react will be huge.
I actually made a joke with a colleague two weeks ago that I have a similar problem with a dutch and a german company (T-Mobile and a german servers provider - in both cases issues with transferring the company contract to a personal one) and that would be an interesting comparison between the ways they operate and the outcomes.
Reputatie 7
Badge +20
Hi Pavlin,

Welcome to the T-Mobile Community!

Thank you for asking your question on our platform. I believe you are misinformed about our IND policy. The IND sticker (proof of registration), was used until a few years ago as a requirement for EU citizens to obtain a subscription with a device. However, since 2013 the IND has stopped the registration of EU citizens and thus also with providing this sticker / proof of registration. The policy is then changed for EU citizens. They can also get a T-Mobile subscription by presenting a passport or national ID card.

The IND sticker was used as a form of registration for five years and therefore it is still used in our system. It allows people who have this document to get a subscription with a device until January 1, 2018. However, the IND sticker is not required anymore, but serves as an additional service to the customer.

I hope I have provided you with a sufficient answer and that I have changed your perception of us as a company.

If you have any questions further, please let me know!
Thanks for your answer! I gives me hope that everything will be resolved and it was just a confusion with the support. As I said I do believe T-Mobile is the best mobile operator in NL and do want to stay a subscriber.
The support lady gave me two clear options - send a copy of my IND sticker in order to have the contract transferred from my company to me or close the contract. When I said that I don't have a sticker because I don't need it she actually connected me on the phone with someone who can cancel the contract. If this someone did speak English by now the contract would have been canceled. That's how important having the sticker was for her.
It would be nice if people at Contractovername would provide some helpful information when something is not correct with the documents they receive instead of the generic rejection mail. This not only puts the client in a dead-end situation but forces the people in the support to try and provide information it is not clear even for them on the specific case.
Update. Seems not all employees are aware of the policy change.

I have just received an official email from "Team T-Mobile Business" (contractovername@t-mobile.nl) stating that the sticker is required!

Several days ago I sent them this:

Hello,
I have received a generic reply from you that states that something is
wrong with the files I sent. After I called the support it seems there
are 2 problems there.
One of them seems to be that I did not provide and IND sticker.
After consulting with them I'm sending you the document they advice to
be sent in situations like this
(https://ind.nl/organisatie/nieuws/Paginas/Afschaffing-meldplicht-EU-burgers.aspx).
See attached "Open brief.pdf". According to IND themselves this should
be enough.
I was told that you can not see the banking pass, but I'm not sure
what exactly the problem is. It was put on the scanner like the ID
card. If needed I can make a picture and send it again.

------

One hour ago I got this reply:

Subject: Contract change request [Incident: 160120-000826]

Response By E-mail (Ahmed) (26/01/2016 11:20)
Dear Sir Stoychev,
We would like to receive a copy IND ID with a sticker on it.
Also we want to receive a copy debit card.
Once this is inside we shall proceed to contract acquisition.
Looking forward to see your response.
Best regards,
Team T-Mobile Business


So - no sticker = no contract. Plain and simple.
Really not sure what I need to do next... :-(


Update on the update ....

The support on the chat told me this: "When I get the information in our system. We still need the Sticker. I can send this to our Legal department. To check this." And they promised they will call back...
After a week of silence and while still waiting to be called by someone at T-Mobile who will tell me what to do, now I get a single mail "Opzegging van uw abonnement"
It tells me that recently I have decided to close my contract and asks me if I would be kind enough to answer some questions (korte vragenlijst).

I have no idea what is going on and at this point I'm too afraid to ask...

No mail, no call, no changes in the admin area of My T-Mobile Beheer, not a single bit of information, but a questionnaire that tells me I did something I haven't done.
Reputatie 7
Badge +20
Hi Pavlin,

I'm sorry for the late response and the inconvenience . We are currently looking into this situation. I will let you know what the outcome is once I have more information.
Hi, just wanted to say that 7 days later I'm still patiently waiting 🙂
Reputatie 4
Badge +3
Hi Pavlin,



It took me a while to read up on the case. Thank you for your patience, it suits you well(after all, it is a virtue). Seems like a bit of contradictory information. Has there been any attempt to contact you since the day before yesterday?

I'll try to explain the outcome. With a foreign ID within the EU, either a copy of the IND-sticker is needed or a copy of a debit card no older than 4 months. With foreign ID's outside the EU a copy of a residence permit type I, II, III, IV, V or a copy of a privileged document is needed.

A foreign passport or a Dutch driver's license of a foreign applicant is also allowed.

I'd like to appeal on your virtue. I have no doubt you will be contacted by T-Mobile Business, if it not happened yet. If you have any questions further, please let us know! You can also provide us with an update, I'm really curious.
Hello,

So IND sticker is indeed required even when IND says it should not and doesn't want to issue them anymore...
This problem will only escalate in the future as none of the EU citizens that come to NL has the sticker anymore. Those who arrived before the start of 2014 probably have it, but the number of people that doesn't have it will only grow.
But if I read your reply correctly the ID card is not accepted, but the passport is. So I should simply send them a copy of my passport instead of my ID and it will be fine? I guess not.

I'm in a waiting mode for 2 weeks now. The problem is that the current company contract expires at the start of April and this kind of contracts have a 3 months notice for termination. When I started to try to resolve the problem a month ago there were 3 months left, now there are 2 months left. It is very possible that this month of waiting will cost me 50 euro (a month subscription) that I will be forced to pay without any of this been my fault.
Also one month ago when I sent them the documents my bank card was less than 4 months old. Now it no longer is...

Still I need to say that neither the passport nor the 4 months old bank pass were given to me as an alternative to the IND sticker all this time. If any of them is possible then I can find a way to provide them.
Reputatie 2
I'm trying to grasp this, but I can't. How can T-Mobile request an official document that is no longer being issued to EU and Swiss nationals? This is completely bunkers. The answers supplied by the T-Mobile people are also no help at all. It's like talking to a government official: whatever you say you'll get the same tune in return and it will never contain any answer.


Ik probeer dit te begrijpen, maar het lukt me niet. Hoe kan T-Mobile nou in godsnaam eisen dat iemand een officieel document overhandigt dat al twee jaar niet meer wordt verstrekt aan mensen uit de EU en Zwitserland? Dat is compleet bezopen. De antwoorden die Pavlin krijgt zijn ook werkelijk van het meest bedroevende niveau mogelijk. Het is alsof je een vraag stelt aan een ambtenaar: er komt nooit iets zinnigs uit.


For your entertainment: Asterix entering the T-Mobile head office:
This is what I don't understand in the whole situation.
They ask me for sticker that I don't have. I go to the IND site in order to see how can I get one. IND says they don't issue them anymore. And they offer a document that should be sent instead of the sticker to anyone who requests it:
"Download (en print) hier een brief van de IND die u kunt tonen aan bedrijven en organisaties die u om een bewijs van rechtmatig verblijf vragen."
https://ind.nl/organisatie/nieuws/Paginas/Afschaffing-meldplicht-EU-burgers.aspx

The document itself says: "EU-/EER-burgers en Zwitsers die in Nederland wonen (en werken) hoeven bij
de Immigratie- en Naturalisatiedienst (IND) geen registratiesticker meer te halen
in hun paspoort. Het voornemen bestaat deze meldplicht voor EU-burgers per
6 januari 2014 af te schaffen. "
and
" Hun (geldig) paspoort of ID-kaart van een EU-/EER-land
of Zwitserland is voor u echter voldoende bewijs dat zij rechtmatig in Nederland
verblijven. Wij verzoeken u om hiermee rekening te houden."

So I say - OK, they want IND document, lets send them the document.
But they refuse to recognize it with no single reason.

What is the the way T-Mobile judges when is IND right and when wrong? Because they obviously do not recognize IND as an institution at the moment but they used to before the start of 2014.


I think the reason this problem hasn't appeared seriously until now is because T-Mobile is the only mobile operator to require the sticker. When an EU expat wants to start a subscription and they get asked for it they simply go to some other provider. So T-Mobile is silently sending customers to the other operators, but those customers are not really motivated to complain as they get what they want - a subscription.
Also if the EU citizen has a company in NL the sticker is not required as the KVK document is enough.
I'm in the position to be tied in this Catch-22 because I used to have a company that I closed. So according to T-Mobile I used to be valid, but now I'm not. And for a month now no one has been able to tell me what does it mean and what to do with my current company contract that expires after 2 months.
Reputatie 7
Badge +20
Hi pavlin,

I am so sorry for the inconvenience. This situation is much more complicated then I anticipated. I have contacted different departments within our company and I am trying to find you the best solution. Please have a little bit more patience so we can hopefully solve this issue for once and for all.
Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.
The contract is transferred 🙂 Thanks!

Now there is another problem - no more Deezer.
When I login to my T-Mobile account it says I have "Muziek pakket" but my account is no longer premium on Deezer. But I'm still paying 6 euro for it.
I tried to activate it again by putting my phone number but it says it is not recognized.
Reputatie 7
Badge +20
Hi Pavlin,

I am so happy everything worked out in the end! :8

About Deezer, in our system it says you are currently using Deezer Premium Vast. Hence the €6 you are paying. I believe you have to register again. Can you delete the Deezer App and download it again? You can then follow the steps on this page to fulfill your first registration. You will receive a code via SMS to activate your Deezer account.

Please let me know if this works! 🙂
Hello,

I'm using the web interface of Deezer. When I enter my phonne number in order to receive an SMS I get an error: Je nummer wordt niet herkend

I tried to format the numers in different ways : 00316 and 06 but I got the same message.

Thanks!
Reputatie 7
Badge +20
Hi Pavlin,

Are you using your old account? When you go to the Deezer website you should click on T-Mobile and then choose to register. If you don't have an account you can choose ''Ik wil een 'Deezer account aanmaken'' if you do have one choose ''Ik heb al een account''. Have you followed all the steps on this page?

Let me know what the outcome is.
Hello,

I'm using my existing Deezer account. This is what I get.



Thanks,
Pavlin
Reputatie 7
Badge +20
Hi Pavlin,

You should enter your number without a space in between like this 0612345678.

Can you please tell me if that works?:$
Hi,

The result is the exactly the same.

Thanks,
pavlin
The contract is transferred 🙂 Thanks!

Greetings from Australia... CONGRATS!!!

I want to thank you for the patience you've showed, an example to others considering how they feel to be entitled to certain treatment.

I'm really happy to read it got transferred and all worked out eventually!

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